[od-discuss] introduction

Jonathan Gray jonathan.gray at okfn.org
Tue Aug 17 17:46:09 BST 2010


+1 on "ask for as much as we think we can get" ;-)

I guess PD is gold standard, but don't think we should alienate
attribution license users. E.g. NZ has recently announced plans to
open up a bunch of stuff under Attribution license:

http://blog.okfn.org/2010/08/06/new-zealand-government-open-access-and-licensing-framework/

I would suggest we develop a *really* simple set of principles which
lots of bodies can support/sign on to, and mirror it in a bunch of
places. What do you think? Could also direct folks to other work where
bar is higher, but good to have consensus on *basic* minimum for open
gov data...

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Tom Lee <tlee at sunlightfoundation.com> wrote:
> That's a great point, Jonathan. Our list was developed primarily to serve as
> a tool in our discussions with US legislators, so it's definitely oriented
> toward that.  It seems quite likely to me that different approaches will be
> necessary for different legal environments.
> Regarding the specific CC/public domain question: in my opinion the right
> approach is probably to ask for as much as we think we can get, without
> making claims so strong that they scare the audience off.  You can see this
> reflected in the point concerning fees, which doesn't come right out and say
> "government information ought to be free!" lest the words "UNFUNDED MANDATE"
> start flashing in front of the reader's eyes.  But different bureaucracies
> may well have different sensitivities.
> Tom
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray at okfn.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> The one point I anticipate that OKF might have slightly different
>> approach for is point 8. on licensing -- especially regarding
>> Attribution. E.g. is CC-BY acceptable for government documents, or is
>> it public domain or the highway? While US Federal government is easy,
>> will all state/local government relinquish rights for gov data in US?
>> In EU there are quite strong traditions of copyright in government
>> data. E.g. in UK lots is released under very permissive
>> attribution-only license, and we would be keen to call that 'open'
>> still.
>>
>> What do you think? Part of my motivation for a new set of principles
>> for open government data is because the original 8 are quite US
>> centric, particularly regarding licenses...
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Tom Lee <tlee at sunlightfoundation.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello all -- just a quick note to introduce myself.  I'm Tom Lee,
>> >> director
>> >> of Sunlight Labs, the technical arm of the Sunlight Foundation.  I'm
>> >> looking
>> >> forward to being a part of this important discussion, and hope that
>> >> you'll
>> >> all feel free to reach out to me individually if there's some way that
>> >> I or
>> >> Sunlight can be of help to you.
>> >
>> > I reach out!
>> >>
>> >> Rufus has already posted our just-released set of ten open data
>> >> principles
>> >>
>> >> (http://sunlightfoundation.com/policy/documents/ten-open-data-principles/)
>> >> to this list, so perhaps I ought to begin by mentioning it. First: I'd
>> >> be
>> >> glad to hear any thoughts or suggestions for improvement that it might
>> >> prompt.  We're offering it in the spirit of evolutionary enhancement of
>> >> work
>> >> that Sunlight had previously participated in -- a necessary update to a
>> >> tool
>> >> we'd already been using.  Our experience lobbying the government has
>> >> convinced us that achieving openness is more about fostering a norm
>> >> than
>> >> about finalizing a spec, which makes us less worried about the dangers
>> >> of
>> >> proliferating standards, so long as they're broadly in agreement
>> >> (though I
>> >> certainly understand and respect the fact that others may disagree).
>> >
>> > I agree with all of this. I think your principles are at the right level
>> > and
>> > (until I have had time to think more) seem reasonably comprehensive.
>> > You
>> > are probably aware of our work on the Panton Principles
>> > (http://pantonprinciples.org/ ) for Scientific Data which have a
>> > slightly
>> > different emphasis (partly beacuse of the different approach to
>> > publishing
>> > science). I think they interleave well with yours (and could, for
>> > example,
>> > work for government scientific data).
>> >
>> > We felt it important to get principles rather than hard rules (licences,
>> > standards) and I agree about trying to foster norms. What is clear (at
>> > least
>> > in science) is that the practice of data publication has a lot or
>> > wrinkles
>> > that are not present in publishing manuscripts/documents. You allude to
>> > some
>> > of them - open software for reading, for example. Complex data sets are
>> > often put together purely for the use of an initially closed community
>> > and
>> > then it becomes difficult to make them available more widely.  So an
>> > additional principle might be to plan for distribution when the data set
>> > is
>> > conceived. Of course that isn't always possible.
>> >
>> > The details matter and so I have drafted a set of discussion papers for
>> > various aspects of Open Data - the Panton Papers - which anyone is
>> > welcome
>> > to hack. I think any of these principle-based approaches will need a lot
>> > of
>> > supporting material.
>> >
>> > P.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Tom
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> od-discuss mailing list
>> >> od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
>> >> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peter Murray-Rust
>> > Reader in Molecular Informatics
>> > Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry
>> > University of Cambridge
>> > CB2 1EW, UK
>> > +44-1223-763069
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > od-discuss mailing list
>> > od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
>> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Gray
>>
>> Community Coordinator
>> The Open Knowledge Foundation
>> http://blog.okfn.org
>>
>> http://twitter.com/jwyg
>> http://identi.ca/jwyg
>
>
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-- 
Jonathan Gray

Community Coordinator
The Open Knowledge Foundation
http://blog.okfn.org

http://twitter.com/jwyg
http://identi.ca/jwyg



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