[fc-uk-discuss] fc-uk meeting on saturday 10th of december in london

[David M. Berry]

>
> Why would you hold such a bizarre belief? It's no wonder that
> you're getting disenchanted with it. Those things are nothing
> more than organisational aids that can help with real work.
> Use them, but please help with the action too.

Please point out any real action that FCUK has been involved in and  
I'll stand corrected.

>
> Where have they called for this? If you're talking about the
> Gowers review, they've only just published contact details and
> I've not seen any call for papers yet. What have you seen?
>

Sorry I meant this too:
All Party Parliamentary Internet Group (APIG) is to hold a public  
inquiry into the issues surrounding Digital Rights Management (DRM).  
Closing date 21/12/2005

http://www.apig.org.uk/current-activities/inquiry-into-digital-rights- 
management.html

You are right that the submissions for the Gower review is not until  
2006, but it would still be a good idea for a collective (i.e. FCUK)  
response.

> I asked you for information about select committee enquiries, but
> you ignored my request to date. Why won't you share information?
> Hacktivism has one thing right: priests mean problems.

I do not have any. When I do I forward to relevant lists and people.

>
> I think calling "real political change only takes place under
> collective organisation" a "fact" shows either an astonishing
> ignorance of English politics, or a desire to use "real" as a
> weasel word: would we share the same view of what change is real?
>

Please point out the historical examples of single individuals or  
anarchist groups achieving *any* progressive political change.

I think you will find that individuals acting alone, do not achieve  
very much at all. This is the myth of the romantic artist.

> Is such destructive criticism meant to rally us all to form soviets?

To work together yes.

> It just makes David sound like an old red knocker to me.

I am interested in the political pragmatics of fighting the ceaseless  
expansion of intellectual property rights. I believe it is only when  
co-ordinated and collective organisations are formed to struggle  
together will anything be noticed by central government. Of course,  
if you have a hotline (or know someone who has) to Tony Blair and can  
sort things out with a quick chat please feel free.

> I think this needs to be far more constructive.  If anyone
> wants to build a collective organisation for those who believe
> such structures benefit them, go ahead.  Show us how it's done.

Look at the history of suffragette, working class politics, welfare  
rights, civil liberties, gay and lesbian rights, racial and ethic  
minority rights, sexual discrimination. I think you will find that  
they are successful when they work as collectives, not as loosely  
organised individuals who happen to subscribe to the same lifestyle  
politics.

> Prove the anarchists wrong.

History has proved the anarchists wrong.

> I feel any group would still
> benefit from participating in wider voluntary campaigns.
>

Campaigns organised by whom? Fiat of the individual?

>
> Best

David